Wednesday, March 12, 2008

SEC Filing Re: TMTT / David Gengler & Linda Woolf

Though I'm not really pleased to be providing you with bad news about TMTT on my first post back in nearly 9 months, I felt this bit of news was too important to not respond to. I've been stingy with y'all by not giving you some updates as I go. I have been back in the markets and have many updates about how it's going and will bring this blog back to life. For now I'd like to address this information that's hot-off-the-presses, so to speak.

An anonymous user posted a link to the comments section of the previous post (June 11, 2007). It refers to a SEC filing that doesn't seem to favorable for TMTT sales people. It's currently alleged that the personal claims both Linda Woolf and David Gengler made on an infomercial seem to have been false. I had not seen these infomercials nor have I heard of nor had any interaction with David Gengler and Linda Woolf. You certainly can read the SEC filing for yourself, I know only as much as the SEC Press release. I've also glanced through the actual filing document (it's available from the Press Release in PDF format).

While the marketing for TMTT can be characterized as absurd, hyperbole, or even misleading, my experience with the classes, coaches, and mentors doesn't reflect this same sentiment. The individuals that teach the classes and take the time to coach and mentor do seem to care for my knowledge and financial well-being. They're there to teach what it takes to stay in the game and to become good at trading. They're not teaching any magic no-losses guaranteed strategies. Trading is risky, but can be rewarding. TMTT's training can be tailored to an aspiring trader's needs and styles. There's not just one way to make money in the markets and I've learned a variety of strategies from TMTT. You can learn these strategies elsewhere, but I've learned them with TMTT and supplemented my knowledge with books and other resources.

I'm still a fledgling trader and am finding my personal style of trading. TMTT has offered me a large variety of ways to trade and I'm discovering my psychological tolerance levels for the differing risk and reward profiles. It's an adventure that I'm glad I began to share and am looking forward to continuing to share with you.


Branden said...

I was actually in a workshop that gengler taught and i didnt see all of this. But i had the chance to talk to him and he seemed like a decent guy who knew what he was talking about. Even showed us some of the trades that he did make quite abit off of(not that he showed us his overall, but besides the point i suppose)

If what the article says is true, it will be a little dis-heartening but I as well will continue to at least learn more from the tmtt crew due to the fact that the training I already have received has been top notch as well and has benefited me to say the least.

p.s. hope to see more of your updates soon

Anonymous said...

You must somehow be associated with TTMT! I dealt with this company and their scam to the tune of $8k+ since 2005. Their so called "traders" don't actually trade the market - they state that they do, but they don't. It's very easy to tell someone "how to make money" but to walk the walk and talk the talk doesn't happen with this company. Linda Woolf did the original 3 day that I attended and all the allegations are absolutely true that I've read in the SEC documents, with one exception, she claimed to be a divorcee and her and her ex lost millions in their construction company. She claimed that her and her sister sat in the TTMT seats and that she made her millions in the market. I would highly encourage anyone to run not walk away from anything with the TTMT affiliation. This company is a hoax from the word go.

TaoTrader said...

Yes, I am associated with TMTT. I'm a student of their programs. I am not compensated by anyone for doing this blog nor if anyone chooses TMTT nor any other training program. I get some money from Amazon for setting up a store with them, but only if readers purchase through my store.

Anonymous said...

I'm in the middle of a seminar right now in Hawaii. I paid $200 for 3 days. I have found the speaker to be engaging, his presentation of the materials thus far has been easy to understand and even enjoyable (considering the subject matter). In the first day I learned more about trading than I have learned in my whole life! He was very honest at the beginning of the seminar, and told us he would not be able to teach us everything we needed to know in 3 days. I knew this long before I showed up to the seminar, only a fool would think you could learn everything you need in 3 days! If it were that easy everyone would be trading and no one would ever lose money in the stock market. Yes, he told us about other classes offered through the Academy, and no they are not cheap.
I have checked out other software companies, like Nexgen. They have a great product to the tune of $16,000 they offer some education with it but how much exactly is unclear. You can also place trades through the software with certain brokers,I will be speaking with a rep from that company on Monday.
So you see the trade off, inexpensive software, expensive education from TMTT or expensive software and inexpensive education. Which is better? That's what I'm trying to figure out. I have no illusions, ultimately it's my choice and my responsibility. I feel better about spending money on the education, because the software is only a tool, and useless without the knowledge, no matter how good it is. Also there are programs and tax benefits for spending the money on education as opposed to the software.
There seems to be some pressure to commit and buy at the end of the seminar, but again, ultimately it's my choice!Seems to me some people have a problem with taking responsibility for their own actions.

Anonymous said...

How interesting for Linda to say she is a divorcee and her x-husband lost millions in their construction company.
Here is the real scoop... Linda's x-husband screwed a lot of people out of their homes with his construction company - he took their money and went underground for many years. Then all of a sudden he resurfaces with MONEY....hummm
She has been married to her current husband (former nail tech) since around 1988 or so. She and her sister went to a Wade Cooke seminar and she became interested. She personally went up to Wade Cooke and asked if she could teach for him. Look where Wade Cooke is now.

Anonymous said...

How interesting for Linda to say she is a divorcee and her x-husband lost millions in their construction company.
Here is the real scoop... Linda's x-husband screwed a lot of people out of their homes with his construction company - he took their money and went underground for many years. Then all of a sudden he resurfaces with a new construction company and.....MONEY....hummm
She has been married to her current husband (former nail tech) since around 1988 or so. She and her sister went to a Wade Cooke seminar and she became interested. She personally went up to Wade Cooke and asked if she could teach for him. Look where Wade Cooke is now.
She states she was a school teacher - yeah...back in the early 1980's. She leads you to believe she left her school teaching job for the TMMT sales - She had a nail salon in her home when she started working with Wade Cooke - Pretty interesting how a person can recall things so differently when you are trying to make a hard sell!

tee said...

Hey Tao Trader,

I just discovered your Blog today and I just want to say THANK YOU! for the wonderful information and THANK YOU for sharing your experience. Your Blog is priceles to us!

Why you may ask? My husband and I attended the 3 day seminar by WIA/Rich Dad and we have edutrader and my friends told me about THINK OR SWIM... We're diving into the world of Options Trading.

We left the seminar without purchasing additional classes because we wanted to do some research. Everyone has to do their own homework, RIGHT!

We've been doing research to see if we need the education or if we can do it on our own with books and trial -n- error.. but after reading some (need more time to read it all) of your more recent adventures... sounds like we have to invest more into our formal education.


concernedstudent said...


I recently went to RDPD seminar and then signed up for master trader and three other courses with a mentor. I have not passed my 3 day cancel period. I was quite satisfied when I left the seminar and excited to learn to trade. But when trying to get to the WIA website, I entered the URL wrong, and so I googled it to get the write address. When I did that, bunch of stuff came up about WIA with a lot of angry people on various posts. I have been reading like crazy and there are good and bad points both sides make. WHat I want to know is FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS TAKEN THE COURSES, is their thoughts. If you had to do it over, would you sign up or save your money? I have realistic expectations, I am not looking for get rich overnight kinda thing. All I want to know is does this organization provide a SOLID educational foundation for developing as a trader? How are the mentors? For the amount you spend on the courses, has anyone been able to see their investment back once they began trading, using principles they taught? IF so, over what period of time and with what initial level of capital for funding the account? Any help or thoughts ASAP would be appreciated as time is ticking for me to cancel with them, thus I need to make a decision soon whether to proceed with them or not.

Thomas said...

I am in no way associated with WIAcademy, Whitney, TMTT, that would make me any money based on defending them or criticizing them. I have, however, taken quite a few courses and mentoring with these organizations, including a class with Linda Woolf (I don't claim to know her beyond that nor do I know Gengler in any fashion). I remember her teaching very favorably.

Here's my experience:

1. Their classes and mentoring were top-notch. I am repeating their classes to this day, with no additional charges. I learned a lot of a foundational nature--better and faster than I could have done on my own. They definitely gave me a solid foundation. It's up to me to build on that.

2. I am a very educated person (BA, BS, MA, ivy league MS). I am also a professional in corporate education (software, with no ties to RE or stock market education or software). As such, I know first-hand that education is nothing but a shortcut to building skills faster than individual effort would allow, as well as a way of profiting from an instructor's experience. But it is only as good as the student's efforts at continued education especially supplemental reading and judicious practice of their skills.

3. Corporate, adult, private education (call it what you will) is very expensive to create and present, not to mention, market. Consequently, classes of this nature ARE expensive--no way around that. Upselling is part of the game--rightfully so. If done right, a class will also save the students time and mistakes--in other words, money.

4. An instructor's job is to present materials and add value by a deep background knowledge. It is not necessarily to be a top practicioner themselves. Many authors of stock market education are not necessarily making the majority of their money in trading. They ARE educators, first and foremost. This holds true in ALL forms of education, from ivy league universities to books and short classes of any sort. Student, exercise some common sense: why would an educator travel around the country if they were making $gazillions at home?

5. In my experience, the sales techniques of the aforementioned businesses is aggressive. No more so than other comparable educational enterprises, btw. They DO often downplay the difficulties and play up the rewards. American advertising 101. Bottom line: Caveat emptor (buyer beware). The buyer needs to decide if these products (and their expense) is for them. This is ADULT education, after all!

6. If Woolf and others were breaking the law in their success claims, let the courts take care of that. If you are listening to their claims, expecting something for little or nothing, whose fault is that?

7. If a few people broke the law, I have no sympathy for them. May they rot in jail! I can't, however, help but think that there may be a bit of a witch hunt going on here for political profit (i.e. the SEC demonstrating how they're looking out for us all--note their prominent coverage of this case on their Web site). When was the last time we saw anyone marketing anything (especially on infommercials) without colorful claims (and fine-print disclaimers). It seems to me that a lot more folks than these two should be locked up on that basis...

My conclusion: I found the education extremely worthwhile, but I also need to do my own work and have realistic expectations. There are shortcuts to acquiring information, and these classes did a superb job delivering these. I need to make up my own mind what price I am willing to pay for this information, how many classes I want to take and if I can afford them. I need to decide how ready I am to take this information for a spin in the markets, if I have the right personal qualities to be a trader and what my risk tolerance is. No matter what and whose educational tools I decide to use, I am ultimately responsible.